In this episode, Michael speaks with Kévin Jourdan, Co-Founder of Dotmarket.eu. Kévin has spent close to ten years building, selling, and flipping sites in the French language. He then branched out to brokering French Sites under his brand DotMarket, where he’s established himself as an authority in an underserved market.
Long expatriated in South-East Asia, Kévin has led a nomadic lifestyle for several years, financed by his various activities all linked to web marketing. Website editor, blogger (on Kjourdan.com), SEO consultant, speaker & co-founder of the PR Agency Digitale & Netlinking Flashs, Kévin developed DotMarket to bring together investors and sellers of quality online business. A meeting place created up to his standards and in the image of the way he likes to work: efficient, reliable and human!
SKIP TO THE GOOD PARTS:
0:59 — How did Kévin start in Online Business?
8:52 — What are the typical multiples on French Sites?
22:31 — Are there any competing French Brokers?
36:04 — What are the typical costs of French SEOs & Writers?
45:17 — Are French Sites recommended for non-speakers?
This show is brought to you by domain magnate. And currently we have an offer of group by where we find some really great online business deals, and allow people to participate in those deals for joining the group by so go to domain magnate.com to check out some more details. And our today’s guest is Kevin Jordan, co founder of.market.eu, a French website marketplace. So I’m really excited to learn about how people buy and sell online businesses and websites in France. Hi, Kevin.
Hi, Michael. Happy to be here.
So could you give us a brief intro first, how did you get into buying selling websites? Yeah, sure.
Yeah, fair enough. That will give you a quick overview of how do you go from buy? How do you go from creating them to actually selling them? While I started as a website editor back in 2012. reading some blogs that you may know actually Smart Passive Income niche pursuits were the guides back then and playlists to our to teach people how to build websites, I believe. So that’s the way I started in 2012. It quickly became my main activity 2014, building websites in various niches became my main hobby and Java. And over the years, eventually, after growing some you start considering the fact that you could sell some, obviously you know that we’ve been there too. And you consider buying some to save the time, save the energy and go straight to what exciting scaling them. So all of these years doing it gave me the not the idea because the idea was obviously there is nothing new building a marketplace to help people achieve their sales. But the idea to develop something similar than Empire Flippers was doing in the state and didn’t really exist on the French market. So I did buy and sell websites using my your network. No platforms was no platform was doing it. Why not open my own? That’s basically how I started that market.
And so have you only managed websites and French before Have you also acquired someone English?
I’ve, I’ve, I’ve tried working on some English websites, I used to live in the Philippines. So obviously, their English was the main language. But it’s always been easier for me to grow, especially for the outreach campaigns to work on the French market. So I haven’t lasted long on the English sides and quickly came back to dealing with stuff that I could actually do really well, especially since the beginning, I was writing my own articles. I do believe that my English is okay to understand. And I have a pretty good written English. But it’s it’s not good enough to build a great website and get the authority you need today with native speakers. So quickly get back to building French websites online.
And so what what was the biggest website that you’ve had in French? How much was it making? And did you build it or buy it?
And so the biggest one is still actually a website that we added. We actually created a company around it. It’s a dog website. It generates about 300,000 visitors a month, and between 10 to 12,000 euros, I speak euro a month. So that’s basically our biggest site at the moment and we bought it. We bought a very small one in the dog industry in 2017. We completely rebranded it, because the name wasn’t very good to actually sell the website and it was a little bit touchy on the on the dog lovers aspects of it, if I may say and we’ve been growing it since since then. So every year it gets a little bit bigger and every year we buy other businesses in the in the dog niche.
Very interesting. And can you tell us how much you bought it for and what was it earning at that time?
Yeah, we bought it for 12,000 euros in 2017. And back then it was generating maybe 600 to 700 Read euros per month. But the multiples don’t make much sense because the guy we bought it from was a client of mine. So we basically force the sale by being definitely we paid much more than what it was worth back then. And we’ll talk about it later. But the multiples that we paid back then are basically what we should pay today. So in four years, it can grow a lot. And probably back then we should have paid like 7000 or 8000 euros. But we really wanted that website, it had really good positions on rankings on keywords that we wanted to start working on so and we definitely made our money back anyways. So it was a guy,
and was there some quick wins, were you able to just crawl the website like immediately by changing monetization or things like that? Or was it more like a slow steady growth, adding more content and links,
it’s been a little bit of both. At first, it was a slow and steady growth. And it started to really grow in when we rebranded the website. For some reason, after a while the website started declining in terms of rankings and traffic. So we made the decision to rebrand it, because anyways, we wanted to change that brand. But we didn’t want to take the risk at first to play with redirection and whatever. But eventually doing it opened new opportunities. And after that it quickly grew. It’s pretty new in practice. But the real winner was when my business partner decided that we should finally let go a little bit about the ethical aspect and plug some insurance comparison. Jason on the website, which we didn’t want to do at first, I really had this wheel to keep growing it only pushing Online Dog Training. But you know, after a while, you have to make real money. So we decided to actually give it a try and fair enough in doubled our income. So we never got back to removing it, obviously.
So that is a main source of revenue, like pet insurance, or what is it?
It’s a mix, but pet insurance is definitely a big part as well as pet food. Okay, yeah,
Yeah. And then you have smaller amounts coming from Amazon, obviously, coming from dog training, FDA programs and other small stuff. But insurance and pet food are definitely the two main ones working for the French market.
Yeah, they’re interesting. So you know, I’ve been in this space for about 16 years. And I’ve started by building as the site and English, even though my English wasn’t that good at the time. So I had to kind of learn and get better at it and start writing like better articles. And then, of course, hiring writers to write better content. But I’ve always looked at other languages. So first, I looked at other languages, but I actually speak that I understand. But there wasn’t that much. Like space a competition. So I looked at Russian and Hebrew, a little bit of Spanish, the Spanish was definitely the biggest market there, like out of out of those, you know, that that I could understand. I didn’t look at the French market before. But I know there is also some market in in the new neurons in the edge. So it’s really interesting to explore those are, like the markets in different languages to see how it compares to the US markets with English sides. English language side. So yeah, I’m curious how it really compares. Right now we’ve if you’re if you’re buying a condo website and English for a reasonable amount, if some decent revenue, as we know, it’s probably the average going to be somewhere around three times annual profit, more or less, a bit more, a bit less. How does this compare to the French market?
It’s basically two thirds. We were currently more around two years of profits, when it comes to selling on Bennett’s different public market will be two years, then obviously you can sell a bit more expensive. It’s if it’s like a really big site, if it’s a huge media site, if it comes with a lot of assets around and if you find the perfect buyer, but if we just speak to public marketplaces, such as the one you use to maybe source some of the deals and buy a flipper of NEPA or whoever is under market and there are more and more around them. Yeah, it’s basically two thirds of the US price at the moment.
Very good. So you can buy the double the current annual profit, and how does the quality compare with you say a quality of content of links? Like in the English speaking market, most of the websites are not very good quality. I it’s mostly websites with a built by people who want to grow them aggressively for SEO and then sell. And often you buy them and they would drop in rankings. Is it similar in French? Or would you say it’s more high quality?
Um, we do have a bit the same. I had this debate this morning and Twitter with some SEO folks not being happy that I criticize the fact that most SEO want to buy cheap and sell expensive crappy sites. But um, I guess, building websites to sell them in France is definitely not as huge as on him on the English market. So the level of education makes it much more difficult to find a huge number of websites for seller. And that’s both a good thing and a bad thing, obviously, the good thing because it means more websites built by people who have absolutely no idea that they could sell it. And those people usually put more passion and time and there are a lot of quick wins when you’re actually in that field. And you buy the website from someone who is basically gay getting retired, but actually grew a business online in a urine, you have a lot of quick wins on this website. The counter part of that is that the market is left educated, though, you see the prices are cheaper. That’s bad on the seller side of you see, it’s good and the buyer well, and it’s much harder to educate development to explain to them exactly how it’s gonna work. So we are not covered by potential deals in France, like it’s hard work to convince people that they could and should sell their business. But there are a lot of buyers on the market more and more we know about it. But yeah, not so many sellers, I would say compared to the US market and English market in general.
So are there a lot more buyers in the French market than sellers? Are there are many people who are actively looking to acquire good assets in French? Yeah,
yeah, more and more. And it’s covering a lot of different audiences. For instance, on that market, we’ve added, we’ve identified at least four of them. And we’re starting to discuss with the fifth, obviously, you have beginners, people who are who are just discovering the digital world and want to launch their first business. But since COVID, you have a lot of people as well, and considering launching an activity as a side project, because maybe they lost their job, or maybe they lost a part of income, or at least they just have a lot more time and they want to spend it building something different. So that’s one or the other. The second one is obviously website, the doors from small to bigger sizes, you have a lot of people in France editing websites, but they’re not necessarily selling, they’re more begging to, you know, grow their empires and not so much selling it for now. Then you have media generated. This is obviously the best buyers, they know exactly what they’re looking for. They basically acquire audiences to grow their market shares or just plug their products and services. So that’s an easy one. And the fourth one that we work a lot with and that we like, is more of an intrapreneur kind of audience. So people are not looking for just an Amazon website, but a more global project. So they could be considering SAS even though we don’t do research so much, because again, very late on that art on the French market, but they will consider websites with a brand websites with multiple sources of traffic revenues, whatever, and they will buy it with an idea of making it become their main project. Opposite to website visitors who may just accumulate with a to grow a bigger audience, your revenues and the next one. This one we haven’t started working with. But we’ve started having discussions with basically you guys domain magnet and other PE groups and bands. Not necessarily from France but from the US or from Asia or from Northern Europe considering the French markets In a shy way, because you will have to handle the market. But considering the markets, mostly because of the arbitrage opportunity, and this big gap that’s growing bigger and bigger every year, because obviously from one year to another, we the value, whereas when you consider the US, it’s been growing like crazy, and it’s when you talked about 36. But now it’s not rare to see 4048 on some of the marketplaces, whereas in France, maybe in two years, it went from average, 22 to average 24 a month. And that’s actually gross. And it’s
okay, they’re interesting. So tell us some more details about your marketplace.market.edu. What, like, what’s the size? How many deals Do you have there currently, how many closed?
So it’s a it’s French sized home? Meaning meaning that it’s probably not going to be super exciting numbers. If you take an international markets, like I’m always very excited to read the reports from F international or from Empire Flippers and see what kind of deals they they can sell. Back then I share the tweet, when Empire Flippers shared their q4 or q3 numbers, saying that they basically generated $3 million worth of commissions. Well, basically, we generated $3 million worth of gross sales for this year. So market size is way different. It doesn’t mean that we couldn’t do better. Have you seen the first year widget we sold about 20 websites, wanting 24 websites. But with very low value, we had to test the market test our process, gain credibility as well on the market. That wasn’t the needy part. Then this year, we started working on bigger deals. We we’ve been selling about 2.5 to 3 million euros worth of website for 2021 as of today, and we hope to reach that 4 million to 5 million mark by the end of the year. On how does this compare to the international market? You see, it’s very small, what kind of market share does that represent our friends, it’s kind of hard to say because the landscape is changing very quickly. But I do believe that we should be able to reach 10 to 15 million next year. And from there our beat, our best option would be to start working on other EU markets and not stay, you know, stuck on our French market really growing. It might not be growing fast enough if we want to grow much bigger the company.
Okay, very good. So this year, you’ve done two and a half million euros already. Yeah. And how many deals with that? whatsoever. That’s,
yeah, that’s much lower number of deals, we get all the smaller deals. So we’re parently 10, to 12 deals for 2021. And then then we recently decided again to accept, again, smaller deals, because sometimes it just goes for too long. And we don’t have small websites for sale. And we have a big audience that actually looking for smaller sites. So we’re trying to find the right balance between working on bigger deals. And when I say bigger, again, French market view here. So I’m not talking a million euros worth of website, I’m talking 200,000 euros worth on website. That’s a big deal already for friends. And we try to find the right balance between those bigger deals, and much smaller deals 20 3040 50,000 euros, where we have a much bigger audience, but obviously it’s basically the same amount of work on both of them. So, you know, you have to find the balance to to be profitable as well.
And what’s the biggest one you’ve sold so far?
The biggest one we’ve sold was close to $2 million. It was in the bed industry. Yeah, Amazon and other actually its bed comparison websites.
Okay. Very cool. So is it all just content websites right now?
Now we have so we started with content website because that’s my personal background. So that’s where we have the most, you know, as far as the yet to actually create some auditing process, right. But the biggest number of websites we receive for estimation and save is actually ecommerce sites. So as of today, we try and recruit more content sites. But we have more ecommerce sites for sale. Okay, their interest every few SAS, like we’ve had to, and it’s quite hard to actually sell SAS, in France, the market is even less educated. Like there is a good chance that a company like Microsoft acquire is would be capable of making more business on the French market in the SAS industry than S. There’s because people who know about SAS, they go straight to expert. And on that fart, my cry choir is definitely definitely one of them. And it’s very hard to penetrate the niche of actual size foreigners and SAS investors on the French market,
very good. And what’s your commission writer currently?
So we’re between 10 and 13%. That that’s varies depending on the amount, obviously. But one thing that we adjusted compared to most of our competitors, if I may say, and I don’t really consider English platform as competitors, because today, they have deals with a few of them where we send them English website, and sometimes they send us French websites. But anyway, compensatory if we consider the market in general. Instead of charging this tailor, because we are on a market where we have way more buyers than sellers, we decided to apply your stripper assignments commission rate resellers and to add the 10% markup going down to 7.5. If it’s over a million, you’re ready to the buyers.
Okay, so the seller lace and that does the seller pay for listing? Or do they only pay once it sells?
It’s all performance based. So if it doesn’t sell, we don’t get paid.
Okay, so the seller pays 3% and the buyer seven and a half up to 10. Exactly. That’s interesting. Yeah, so very good. I think that’s quite impressive. I have no idea about the size of the French market. But I have to say it’s more active than I expected. Because I haven’t heard of other like the Spanish or Dutch or German. I haven’t heard of there being well established marketplaces that are selling like a few millions worth. Are there any competitors on the French market? Are there any other marketplaces?
Yeah, there are most of them are open marketplaces pretty much like what fleabites doing on the international markets. Not going to explain the way fleabag works. But you guys know the difference between vetted marketplaces and we for all marketplaces. So the French markets on the French market, there has been marketplaces like that for years like since the beginning of internet, there has been websites where you can list your business for sale, but actual competitors, people who actually made it an activity and created a process to accompany the sellers and the buyers and protect it literally. We have one competitor who has been there for like 12 years or so when they do half half, half public and half that in deals. And then there is a bunch of independent brokers like on the English market, you have a lot of very good independent brokers who have their own network and who do this job. But obviously you won’t find them making podcasts or needing a website or whatever, they’re more working in the shadows, I would say, at least on the French market that Socrates is going to be really hard for you to find these independent brokers if you don’t know already someone in the industry. So that’s basically our chance today that the vns having very low competition, having no competition actually trying to communicate about the the activity of selling and buying website is definitely an asset for us. And at the same time because nobody does it, it means we basically have to do all the job of educating the market and sometimes it’s a bit of a pain in the ass cpls
Yeah, I can I can understand that. And how does the market compare in other European languages? Spanish German, others other similar marketplaces like yours.
Not that none that I actually know of. We haven’t done a lot of research to be honest. We decided to focus 100% on the French market and to restrain our words to actually start studying other America so that we actually stay focused on what we do best for now. But obviously, I’ve been digging a little bit seeing here and there. Could we like buy one? Could we partner with one or whatever, I haven’t found some doing the same work of communicating that we do. There are a few international marketplaces actually working on the European market, obviously. But I haven’t found one per country, doing what we do for the French market, there might be some, but I don’t speak other languages than French and English. The other ones, I’m pretty bad at it. So I wouldn’t be able, you know, to really let you know if, if what they do is exactly the same as what we do.
And have you had any non French speaking, buyers on your market looking to buy some French?
Yeah, we’ve had some it didn’t work on now. We’ve had, as I say, we’ve had more curiosity than actual chasing offers. Mostly because us buyers, for instance, they show up on the marketplace, and they think like, what’s going on with the prices like why you did it, right. And then obviously, when we talk, we explain that it’s not that it’s, it’s good for you, because you’ve come from a market where is this is crazy expensive. But in France, the price that we actually put online are the expensive one, like, it’s not rare that buyers sellers, come on guys, you’re like, you know, pricing, it’s expensive, and it’s just two years. But that just shows how we’re not used to buying websites, the French market is yet. And when foreign buyers show up, they definitely find the cheap, but then obviously, when you consider the cost of hiring a French team are handling French partnership. For now, it’s been it’s been a negotiation thriller, let’s say. But I’m quite, I’m quite hopeful. It’s not being hopeful. But I’m quite certain that at some point, some companies are going to start actually considering buying French sites or Spanish sites or whatever other languages, but just to be able to apply what you guys do really well on the US market, on foreign countries where the level of SEO or monetization is sometimes an orphan, not even as good. But let’s be honest, the French market is not as competitive and as hard to rank on than the English markets. So I’m pretty happy to read French websites as well, right. But I’ve always studied how to build websites from the English market. And I can tell you that most of the stuff that you read on English blogs, maybe you read three or four years later on the French market know what I mean. So it creates this gap in terms of expertise. And if you show up with your us expertise, and you take a French site, you might be quite surprised by what’s being done to monetize the site and how it’s being done in terms of SEO, it’s working, but you’re going to be surprised that No, okay. Maybe I expected better, you know.
Yeah. So yeah, we talk about high multiples, but I remember 10 years ago, to twice the the annual profit was actually quite high. 10 years ago, the slides were selling for, like 1520 times the monthly revenue. So you mean we’re 10 years late? We are a little bit so maybe maybe the same will happen in the French market? Yeah. Five years from now it might the multiples might grow. So for someone who doesn’t speak French, are there other operators, people who can help you manage your website at a reasonable cost? Is that a thing?
It definitely isn’t. It being It’s been a long discussion. Over the past few years ever since we started that market. We’ve had requests from buyer asking if they could pay me just invest in the company or invest in a fund but not have to operate the websites. I find that model obviously very exciting. And I invested myself some money I went on for your lunch because I really liked the idea of you know, just putting some money and in a field that I know managed by people. I know. And just see my money, you know, profits from it my investment get profitable. But it doesn’t exist in France, it’s really complicated to build it, we have so many rules in terms of financial systems are organization. But as of today, it’s, it’s, it’s not even something I could build if I wanted to for that market, I believe. And the best reason I’m gonna give you like one thing that can make you realize how late we are, when it comes to buying websites, there is no way to actually get money from a bank to buy a sole digital asset. Yeah, and it doesn’t work. You know, now, if you have a digital company and you want to buy a digital asset, maybe your bank knows you’re believing it enough, and they trust you to lend the money. But there is no way that you launch a company or that you have a small activity and you want to raise some money to buy an active website alone. And that you will get it from event. And banks are not doing it. But there are no other option. Like there is no one in the markets making it easier to actually raise some money to buy that kind of assets. So this is a huge step that has to be taken first or the market, I believe the moment it’s going to be easier to raise money, obviously, the prices are going to go up, people are going to be buying websites more because it’s going to be easier. But as of today, it makes it harder. So imagine building a house based on buying websites and operating them. I pitched my bench ad they laughed at me. They looked at me like what the hell are you talking about?
I have a similar experience with my bank. They can Israel A while ago, they also like I brought a check from Google AdSense to cache it. And they asked me like, do you work for Google? No, I use the Google ad network on my I have a portfolio of websites where I use a network, and I put the ads and make revenue for that for that. And then they looked at me. And then they asked me again. Do you work for Google? And then they and I just said like, Yeah, okay. Yeah, that was it’s just there was a, there was a huge gap. But then surprisingly, a couple years ago, that was maybe 10 or 15 years ago. And then a couple years ago, I remember at the same bank, they asked me Do you get income from Google AdSense? Because if you do, we now allow you to pay taxes on dramatically. And I was impressed. I was like, wow, they they’ve grown so yeah, definitely banks are catching up slowly, but they’re catching up
too slowly. And our markets a couple years ago, I tried and buy your website for I think the price was like 20,000 euros, and the website was generating something like 3000 euros a month. Oh, nice to Berlin by Twitter, right? We decided to go to the bank and raise 40,000 euros 2025 to buy the website and 15 to 20 to reinvest on the website, because that there was a lot of work to do on the SEO part. there were still some campaigns running on Google ads and other you know, networks that we weren’t sure that we could handle properly. So we decided to ask like double the money we needed, but still, you know, 14 euros, 40,000 euros for 3k per month, it’s still a low multiple in terms of money raised. And I remember my banker told me that first she didn’t understand how I calculate computed computed that. She was like, how do you know that they’re making 3000 euros a month? Like, what are you did it? What’s that question? No. I mean, I made sure I have all the papers, I can show you the invoices and ever, so that we can I don’t understand it. And then how do you compute the fact that you’re you’re so sure that you’re going to reimburse the money in less than two years, less like well, in the market says that the average value is maybe times shifting in nytt. And I’m being like, super realistic. We buy this business for half the price. So it means the moment I get the business I can fail and refund you straight away based on the correct market multiples. And I don’t think that’s possible. I don’t understand that. We don’t have any proof about What you’re saying? So I don’t think we’re gonna be able to lend you the money that you’re asking. Yeah. Okay, that’s, that’s that’s a crazy analogy. You know, you can lend us 100k to buy whatever other businesses generating nothing per month I can, I can raise 100k to value a unit generating a really small income per month. But you don’t want to lend me 40,000 euros per unit generating that much per month. Okay, we’re gonna have to find other ways.
Yeah, that’s, that’s how it is with banks they had there. It did not fit their framework. So nothing, definitely not. Yeah, yeah. But did you end up knowing that? Yes. Did you buy that website? And then did you? Was it success now?
No, we saw it as a sign that we shouldn’t lose focus from the dog websites. So instead, we bought more dog websites. Okay, that’s good to lead. So never but closer to what we knew how to handle.
Yeah, so for someone who doesn’t speak French, like, for example, if we were to go on the market and buy some websites for a couple 100,000 euros? How would we manage them? What What would it look like? Would it be difficult to go and hire some writers? Do you know what the costs would be like? And then how would we build links? Are there some services we could use? Yeah,
yeah, that we do have. I mean, we are late, but not that late. We actually, we actually have a copycat of Fiverr, which is called five euros that come basically exactly the same name, but in French, and there are plenty of freelance marketplaces where you can find really good content writers, the costs, the cost is growing. But today, I would say, the cheapest article, you can find around 30 euros for 1000 words. But markets price would be closer to 60. As of today, unless you have big quantities of work on beauty, then you can find a bit cheaper. And then yeah, we have a lot of marketplaces to buy links definitely get fluenz rocketlinx. They’re
like quality links that are like from real blogs for outreach or guest posts. What do you think it would cost Usually,
it can go from, you know, like 50 euros for like smaller contextualize links on smaller blobs that don’t really know what they’re doing, they are selling the link, you know, where they don’t really have a value of it. If you want to buy on big media sites that usually go is like 152 1000 euros or more. For those sites, it doesn’t really make sense to buy the links. You can go through agencies that actually run outreach campaigns, there are not a lot, but there are a couple ones that actually do the job really well, they create a campaign on demand. And they go to the press and get this. There’s there’s mentioned the cetaceans and those links. But in between here, you have all the platforms that send links and if you filter properly, you’ll have really crappy ones pretty good ones and huge ones, but the huge ones are going to be Europe usually very expensive. And then it doesn’t really make sense. It’s better to pay 20,000 euros for an outreach campaign and get a lot of really good links from them, then buy them one by one and spend the same amount for like four or five links.
Okay, that’s very interesting. So the content price sounds pretty similar to what we pay in in in English and the English of course, we need to have high quality of content these days, you cannot get cheap content written by writers from the Philippines from India, it just doesn’t work anymore. It doesn’t rank as any more high quality. In French, it seems like the rates of similar although the backlinks would would cost quite a bit more because in English, we were able to get backlinks much cheaper now $400 bit more a bit less for like decent quality links. So that’s a no
then you could find but it would be harder to find really decent quality links for that price.
And in terms of monetization, I imagine it’s similar you have you have Google AdSense you have Amazon, you have probably fewer specialized networks but you can find some some good offers as well. Right? For Yeah, deals.
Yeah, there are. There are but not As much like, we have lower RPM, like for instance, you will make less money using a very can rents than the same websites for the US market. Because advertisers spend less money, and you know, their rates are not the same, so you’re gonna earn less, it’s still better in most cases with which from atoms to s are equal, for instance, but it is not going to be like a huge boost on your V net. In all industry. Sometimes it’s going to be really good, sometimes less. But there is no competition, no real competition, really, you guys have media, vine and plenty others adthrive I believe that usually, that’s what you will find, if you want to compare what’s the best ad rates you can get on your website, whatever. On the French market, those companies don’t actually accept French sites, they only work on English sites, and is very keen is one of the the new Act to accepting French sites, then we, we have a hazard obviously, we have a lot of affiliate programs. But we don’t have the same again, education level level of education in terms of how to pay athletes. So for instance, on the target markets, we don’t have to be, too, we made a big change on the profit profitability of English websites, I still remember back then checking English sites being monetized with Amazon and then Jewish shows up and they have this huge percentage, roughly eight and they create the brand and they make people, a lot of people a lot of money. We don’t have that in France, too, is not available in France. And we don’t really have obviously, we have big dog ecommerce sites. But there are actually program is not as good as I imagined. So you don’t benefit from a specialized site to convert better or to get more commissions. So that’s a huge thing that impacts the market that it’s a little bit more difficult to have nice payouts from actually programs, because actually creation is not as big as in the state.
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